Monday 11 November 2019

The abuse of power by Boris Johnson


Prime Ministers abuse the power entrusted to them if their actions are motivated by self-interest or that of the political parties they represent, especially if they do so at the expense of the interests of the state  and its people. 

On Monday morning November 4th, I considered the difference between the actions of Prime Minister Tony Blair in relation to the Iraq war and those of the Prime Minister Boris Johnston since his selection.


Midway during his period of office, Mr Blair used the resources of the state join the President of the United States of North America in the invasion of Iraq, a war which led to the death in service of 179 members of the British forces, some 200 wounded and at least 150000 Iraqi people killed with some estimates two and three times this number. I am certain Mr Blair sincerely believed that it he was acting in the best interests of not just the British state but of humanity in general in helping to establish a new global order which would lead to peace and prosperity. I believe subsequent events have proved he was wrong, but I also believe he was not motivated by self interest or that of the Labour Party.


On the morning of November 4th, I went to see Official Secrets at the Cineworld in Newcastle, a film which tells the true story of a 28 year old married woman, Katherine Gun, who admitted to her employers, the British Digital communication spy centre, GCHQ, that she was responsible for the Observer publishing a memorandum from the United States Intelligence and security service which asked for help to blackmail members of the United States Security Council so they would give legal authority to the invasion of Iraq.  At her trial for breaking the Official Secrets Acts,  the British government offered no evidence because it did not want the fact that at the time the request was made public, its chief legal advisor had told the Prime Minister that British participation in war would be illegal unless it was proved that Iraq still possessed weapons of mass civilian extermination which it was known the regime had previously used on some of its people. It was only after the memorandum became public that the Attorney General went subsequently to the United States where he was persuaded to change his legal advice.


The film will be available soon on DVD, unfortunately the book written my Mrs Gun is out of print and second hand copies cost over £75 although Marcia and Thomas Mitchel have republished for £8.99 or less, their book with the same titled as Catherine’s, “The Spy who tried to stop a War.”  Richard J Aldrich published in 2010 a 666 page history of GCHQ and its functions and covers the Iraq War with the facts of the involvement of Mrs Gun mentioned on pages 521-523. The book originally cost £30 in hardback and second hand copies are available online for £4 including postage.


The film was of special interest to me because Mrs Gunn asked Liberty for help, and Shami Chakrabarti, now Labour’s Shadow Attorney General, arranged for the brilliant human rights lawyer, Ben Emmerson, to represent Mrs Gun in court. In 1998, a civil servant at the office of the Attorney General,  who became Permanent Secretary at the Department of Justice, provided me with written advice which led to contacting Liberty and my wish to help 57 new victims of child abuse when in the care of Sunderland Council, in addition to those previously identified, and my position taken up by an international legal firm, pro bono with Counsel’s opinion by a former head of the Bar Council, also pro bono.


Ahead of the release of the film, Tim Adams of the Guardian interviewed Katherine Gun. It is formally recorded at her arrest by Special Branch, she drew attention that she was employed by the Government  to work for the British people and that her function was not to gather intelligence  so that the government could lie to the British people in order to go to war.


Whether one is a public paid elected government official, government employee, or a private citizen, deliberately breaking the law, whatever  justification or motive, there is likely to be some form of penalty, unless a Public Interest defence can be established. That penalty is often paid by family and relatives and in the instance of Mrs Gun, her husband  was nearly deported in an act of political spite. Despite legislation designed to encourage and protect Whistleblowers the potentially negative life-long consequences, and in some instances, life threatening consequences, of going against the state and its laws, in the public interest, should not be underestimated
.

What we do and what we say lives with us and those with whom we say and do for eternity, although since the digital age, it is possible for anyone, anywhere anytime with the technology to record everything we say and do and also to change what is recorded.  A good political example of this occurred on November 5th when enthusiastic members of the Tory Party election campaign misrepresented the response of Sir Kier Starmer to a question by Piers Morgan about Labour’s  Brexit policy, who immediately pointed out the attempted political deception, and social and mainstream media then showed the Party political representative alongside the truth.


When I was appointed Director of Social Services, South Tyneside, one national newspaper carried the headline, “Ex Con gets top job.” It was several years before the Chairman of the Social Services Committee told me which of his Labour political colleagues, and why, had leaked the information I provided the Council, having been advised in 1970 by a senior officer of the Home Office Children’s Inspectorate both to mention my prison and Satyagraha direct action experience and to end my wider political  activities that had arisen from my role as Parliamentary officer for the Association of Child Care Officers, writing the first 100 editions of Parliament and Social Work and chairing when Vice President of the Association  what is known the Blacklisting committee set up on the advice of two Labour Party Home Secretary, James Callaghan, subsequent Prime Minister, and Roy Jenkins,  subsequently one of the Leaders of the Social Democratic Party. The formal records of my involvement are part of the records of the Association held at the University of Warwick.


Not available for public scrutiny are the records held by British, United States and Russian Intelligence which substantiate  that although  I was a Member of Lord Russell’s Committee 100,  worked for six weeks as an assistant organiser for the Direct Action Committee Against Nuclear War and co-author of the anti-Polaris campaign march from London on Easter Monday 1961 to Holy Loch Scotland at Whitsun, where there was land and sea direct action which made  international news, I was  openly against authoritarian state communism, against the destructive enterism of the political groups such as the Socialist Labour League with their commitment to retaining the “workers” bomb, and that I had demonstrated outside the Russian embassy over one weekend, on my own during Friday night, accompanied by two policemen who went back to their station when all the lights went out in the embassy and traffic in Kensington Palace Gardens  stopped. In 1971 Sir Keith Joseph, the dinner guest at the conference of the Family and Child Care section of  the new British Association of Social Workers which I chaired, asked  why I did not move to Russia to work when I told him of my different political  and social perspective, I like to believe I convinced him that come the revolution we were both listed for elimination, as in 1973, despite the national headline, he confirmed my appointment as a local authority  chief officer, one of only two of the 5000 such officers who had been to prison before their appointment. The precedent had been set by world war conscientious objector Denis Allen, the Children’s Officer of East Sussex. In 1979 Mrs Thatcher set up a system to prevent such appointments.


On November 4th, I returned home to watch the election of a new Speaker to replace the controversial John Bercow, unaware that in the House of Lords there was short debate seeking an explanation why  Prime Minister, Boris Johnson had used his personal veto to prevent a report by Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee being published despite clearance by  British  security services. 


The 3.30pm debate was initiated as a Private Notice Question by Lord Anderson of Ipswich who asked “Her Majesty’s Government why the Prime Minister has not provided confirmation within the usual 10 days that the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament’s Special Report on Russia may be published, and whether that confirmation will be provided today so that the report can be laid before Parliament in advance of Dissolution. David Anderson, a lawyer and QC had been the official reviewer of legislation on Terrorism 2011-2017. In 2015 his report, a Question of Trust on his review of Investigatory Powers Act.


Earl Howe (Con), as did a Minister in the House of Commons, on the afternoon of November 5th, gave the kind of response which showed  political advisers and civil servants as their most skilled worst. He said“My Lords, reports from the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament must go through a number of processes before publication. Those processes apply to the report to which the noble Lord refers in his Question. The Prime Minister will respond to the committee’s request to publish this report in due course, once the usual processes have been completed.”


Baron Davis Anderson drew attention that “The Minister’s response echoes two unsatisfactory explanations aired in recent days for this irregular state of affairs. The first is that redaction remains to be completed. This report has already been through the full redaction process with the agencies and the Cabinet Office. In the ISC’s experience, prime ministerial confirmation has always been a formality. The second explanation is that time is needed for the Government to respond, but the Government’s aim and usual practice, as set out in a 2014 memorandum of understanding, is to respond not when a report is published but within 60 days. This unjustified delay undermines the ISC and, I am afraid, invites suspicion of the Government and their motives. Will the Minister advise No. 10 to think again?



The Minister presented the agreed prepared  response. “My Lords, I must correct the noble Lord in several respects. The length of time for which this report has been with the Government is not at all unusual. It is one of a number of ISC reports which the Government are currently considering. In this instance, the Government are following the standard process which applies before every publication. A memorandum of understanding with the committee sets out the relationship between it and the Government. This does not include a timetable for the Government to clear such a report for publication and there is no set timeline for a response. Nor is such a deadline set in governing legislation.”



Appreciating  the official position was nonsense which no one  believed he added,” Having said all that, I realise that the subject of this report is a matter of particular public interest and have no doubt that noble Lords’ comments will not be lost on those in No. 10.”



Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op) a supporter of the Iraq War and the actions of Tony Blair and a member of Labour’s Cabinet office Intelligence and Security Committee  2007-2010, and of the joint House of Parliament Intelligence and security Committee since it was formed in 2010, asked “My Lords, will the Minister confirm that MI5, SIS and GCHQ are all willing for the report to be published? A question  where he knew the answer was yes.



Earl Howe My Lords, I simply cannot comment on those matters to which Lord Foulkes  interjected “Why not?”



Earl Howe continued to stonewall, “In due course, the Government will release the report for publication, but the processes must be gone through first.”



Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD) then explained the difference between what the government  were saying and what  was in the national press. “My Lords, the Minister will be aware that there have been press reports in the past two or three days on this. There have been what looks to be official selective leaks saying that actually, the report exonerates everyone regarding Russian money.  However, the Guardian this morning states that the report deals with allegations that, “Russian money has flowed into British politics in general and the Conservative party”. Edward Lucas in the Times this morning reports that he understood clearly that the report was on track towards imminent publication last Thursday and has since been blocked by No. 10. Given those reports, which are damaging for the Conservative Party at the start of an election campaign, does the Minister not think it extremely wise to ensure that the report is published as soon as possible, before it becomes more of a campaign issue?


The Lord Earl Howe continued “My Lords, I note the noble Lord’s comments. The governing Act—the Justice and Security Act 2013—makes it clear that the impact of releasing potentially sensitive or sensitive information needs to be considered carefully by the Prime Minister on the advice of civil servants. That process cannot be rushed; I say that with some emphasis.”



Lord Ricketts (CB) a former National Security adviser who gave evidence to the Iraq Inquiry said , “My Lords, I have had the privilege of appearing before the ISC many times in my career; it is always a bracing experience. Does the Minister accept that the committee is widely renowned for the quality of its judgments and the value of its advice? Does he further accept the central point: that the ISC is the only Select Committee of Parliament that requires the Government’s agreement to publish its reports? When Ministers say that they need time to respond, they miss the point that what is being asked for is publication of the report; the response can take its time. There is a clear public interest in the national security implications of Russia’s adversarial conduct.



Earl Howe, then revealed part of the reason why Boris Johnson personally vetoed publication. “I concur completely with the noble Lord’s points. The ISC does its job in an exemplary way and has been chaired exemplarily by my right honourable friend Dominic Grieve. Its reports are thorough, in depth and substantive. However, I must depart from the noble Lord in his implication that there is a special case here for accelerating the process of publication.  



Dominic Grieve the former conservative party attorney general until sacked by David Cameron was appointed as Chairman of the Intelligence and Security Committee in 2015. Prime Minister Mrs May took six months to re-establish the Committee after losing her parliamentary majority in 2017. It is noteworthy that Earl Howe referred to Dominic Grieve as my honourable friend after Boris Johnson had effectively expelled him from the Party.



Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab), a former Attorney General “My Lords, can the Minister say whether the report will be published before the election?



Earl Howe said, “ On the timescale, I can go no further than I already have. (which meant no, but I have been ordered not to say so)



Baroness Altmann (Con) told the Earl his reposes on behalf of the Prime Minister were unacceptable.

“My Lords, will my noble friend take back to his department and to the Prime Minister the clear strength of feeling across this House—and the sense of urgency, given that we face Dissolution tomorrow—that the report should be published? Indeed, as far as the House has been informed, there is an urgency to this matter. The report does not require consideration; all it requires is publication. Everything else has been arranged.



Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab) the deputy leader of Labour peers in the House of Lords and who hold a dress in Public and Social administration from Durham university was direct . “My Lords, what has the Prime Minister got to hide?


Earl Howe My Lords, I regret the implication in that question: the noble Baroness is implying that the Prime Minister does have something to hide, and I repudiate that suggestion in emphatic terms. The normal processes are being exercised and the report will be published in due course.


Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB) the former head of the Civil Service for ten years. “My Lords, did not the process of clearing this report start on 28 March, seven months ago? Only the final stage of its being cleared by the Prime Minister started in October. Also, is not the point of the report that it is relevant to an upcoming general election? The Government should make a particular effort to ensure that it is in the public domain. Please will the Minister ask No. 10 to think again?


Lord Tyler (LD) persisted, “My Lords, the Minister has said that the report is to be published “in due course”. Can he give your Lordships’ House an absolute assurance that that does not mean that it will be kept back until after polling day? As the noble Lord, Lord Butler, has rightly said, it would be outrageous if the public were not given the reassurance that we hope is in the report, long before polling day. Does the Minister recall that in the Queen’s Speech, the Government committed themselves to, “protect the integrity of democracy and the electoral system in the United Kingdom”?—[Official Report, 14/10/19; col. 3.] Can he think of anything more important than to reassure the nation at this stage that our electoral system is not to be undermined by foreign interference?


Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab) then contributed, AS Toby Harris he chaired the Social Services Committee of the Association of Metropolitan authorities in the 1980 which supported the privatisation of  community care which I opposed  and on before of South Tyneside Council gave evidence to the House of Commons Health Select Committee, and against the immediate of the new Children Act, in part  because of concern about the state of local authority child care services because of genericism introduced in 1971 where South Tyneside agreed to create a children’s department with the social service department administrative structure after I became the Director of Social Services.


Baron Harris said, My Lords, the Minister is being very careful in his choice of words. He is conflating the process by which government as a whole has to consider the report, and that includes a process by which the various agencies have the opportunity to ask for various things to be redacted. That is widely understood, so unless the noble Earl is able to confirm that that is not the case, those agencies have agreed what redactions are necessary. Given that, the only item remaining is the Prime Minister’s approval and therefore the only issue is this: has the Prime Minister not had the time over the past fortnight, or is there something in the report which he feels would be embarrassing if put in the public domain now?


At last Earl Howe clearly stated the position “My Lords, no. This matter rests entirely with the Prime Minister”


On Tuesday afternoon, November 5h as I reported in my previous article, I watched the proceedings in the House of Commons to witness the unique passing of legislation to enable immediate and longer term Redress for the victim’s child abuse in Northern Ireland  between 1922 and 1995, and  stayed listening for the urgent question asked by Dominic Grieve


Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Ind) (Urgent Question): To ask the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his refusal to give clearance to the report on Russia by the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament.

The Minister in the House of Commons selected for his ability to stonewall and keep a straight face,  was Christopher Pincher, the Minister of State for Europe and the Americas and Deputy Chief Whip for his Party. He has a good majority in the constituency of Tamworth of over 12000  so his perf
ormance merits promotion to a shadow secretary of state in the next Parliament.

“I would like to answer my right hon. and learned Friend’s question regarding publication of the ISC’s report on Russia. The ISC provides invaluable scrutiny and oversight of the work of the intelligence community to Parliament, so I am grateful to it for conducting this timely inquiry into our work on Russia. Russia’s reckless behaviour in Salisbury and Amesbury shows that, now more than ever, we cannot afford to be complacent about the Russian threat.


Because the ISC deals with matters of national security and intelligence, its reports always contain sensitive information, so it is entirely right that they go through an intensive security review before publication. This report is one of a number of ISC reports that the Government are currently considering. The current length of time that this report has been with the Government is not unusual, as this has averaged around six weeks for reports published in recent years, and three to four weeks for a response to be forthcoming from the Government.


For example, the details of the counter-terrorism review following the attacks and the 2017-18 annual report were sent together to No. 10 on 12 October 2018. We were asked to respond 10 days later on 26 October. We responded on 8 November, and then the checked, proofread report was published on 22 November. Similarly, the details of the detainee’s report were sent to No. 10 on 10 May 2018. Again, the ISC asked for a response within 10 working days on 24 May. We responded on 30 May, and then the checked, proofread report was published on 12 June. In both cases, the process took approximately six weeks, because by law it is imperative that the process is thorough.


In accordance with the Justice and Security Act 2013, the impact of releasing sensitive information must be carefully considered by the Prime Minister on the advice of civil servants. We cannot rush the process and risk undermining our national security. There is no set timeline within the memorandum of understanding with the Committee for the Government to clear such reports for publication, and under the same memorandum there is no set timeline for a response, nor is such a deadline set in the governing legislation.


I want to assure the House that the Committee is well informed of this process, which is continuing along standard parameters that apply before every publication. Once the process has been completed, we will continue to keep all relevant parties and the House informed.


Mr Grieve then explained the truth. “The Intelligence and Security Committee operates on a completely non-partisan basis to try to put information into the public domain in the national interest. This report was completed in March of this year after many months of work. There then began a process of correction and redaction needed to get it published, and that process, which involved the agencies and the Cabinet Office, was completed by early October, when the agencies and the national security secretariat indicated that they were happy that the published form would not damage any operational capabilities of the agencies. That is why, on 17 October, the report was sent to the Prime Minister for final confirmation.


It is a long-standing agreement that the Prime Minister will endeavour to respond within 10 days. The Minister has indicated that there have been instances where further delay has crept in, but my secretariat tells me that it is unprecedented that we should have had no response at all explaining why any further delay is required in this case. The report has to be laid before Parliament when it is sitting. If it is not laid before Parliament ceases to sit this evening, it will not be capable of being laid until the Committee is reformed. In 2017, that took nearly six months.


I ask the Minister, how is it that the Prime Minister has claimed, through the No. 10 spokesman, that there must be further delays for consultation about national security, when the agencies themselves indicated publicly this morning, in response to journalistic inquiries, that publication will not prejudice the discharge of their functions? So, for what purpose is the Prime Minister still considering it? It certainly cannot be the risk to national security, as the agencies themselves have said that there is none. (my highlighting)


Will the Minister confirm that the Prime Minister does not have carte blanche to alter our reports or remove material from them, and that, if he wishes to exercise a veto over publication, he must give the Committee a credible explanation as to why he is doing so? Will he also explain why No. 10 spokesmen insisted that no publication should take place because weeks of further interdepartmental consultations were needed, when, I have to say to the Minister, this explanation was plainly bogus? Finally, will he explain why No. 10 spokesmen suggested that parts of the report had been leaked by the Committee, when it is plainly obvious to anybody who looks at the journalistic speculations that they have not? Would he now like to take the opportunity of withdrawing that particular slur, which came from No. 10? (my highlighting)


Christopher Pincher . I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend for his questions and for his tone. I simply reiterate the points I made in my statement. It is not unusual for the review of ISC reports to take some time. The average turnaround time is six weeks. The average response to the Committee is anywhere between three and four weeks. It is not as if the Prime Minister has not had one or two other things to do over the past several weeks, notably obtaining a good deal for Britain on withdrawing from the European Union. It is not unusual that the turnaround time is what it is.


The Prime Minister has very specific and particular responsibilities, under the Justice and Security Act 2013, to be sure that any information that ISC reports may contain is properly checked and, if appropriate, redacted. The Prime Minister takes that responsibility very seriously ​indeed, because the reports that issue from the ISC are important. They carry weight and therefore they must be properly looked at. That is what No. 10 is doing. That is what the Prime Minister is doing by referring to his officials for advice, which is his right and responsibility.


As to leaks, we see quite a few of those and we deplore them all. I certainly would not want anybody to believe that what is in a leak, particularly if it appears on the front pages of certain newspapers, is believable.


Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab). Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question. May I thank the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) for securing it and for all his efforts?


I can only echo the words of the right hon. and learned Gentleman about the utterly unjustifiable, unprecedented and clearly politically motivated reasons for delaying the publication of the report until after the election. This is not at the request of the intelligence agencies. There are no foreign powers we have to consult, which was the reason for the delay of the rendition report. This is nothing less than an attempt to suppress the truth from the public and from Parliament, and it is an affront to our democracy.


We are bound to ask: what is Downing Street so worried about? Why would it not welcome an official report into attempted Russian interference in the 2016 referendum, whether that was successful or otherwise? I fear it is because it realises that the report will lead to other questions about the links between Russia and Brexit, and with the current leadership of the Tory party, that risk derailing its election campaign. There are questions about the relationship between the FSB-linked Sergey Nalobin and his “good friend”, the current Prime Minister. There are questions about the Prime Minister’s chief aide, Dominic Cummings, his relationship with Oxford academic Norman Stone, the mysterious three years that he spent in post-communist Russia aged just 23, and the relationships that he allegedly forged with individuals such as Vladislav Surkov, the key figure behind Vladimir Putin’s throne. And there are questions about the amount of money flowing into Conservative coffers from Russian émigrés, about the sources of money that paid for the Brexit campaign, and about the dubious activities of Conservative Friends of Russia.


If the Minister is going to dismiss all that as conspiracy theories or smears and say that it has nothing to do with the delay of the report, I say back to him: prove it. Publish this report and let us see for ourselves. Otherwise, there is only question: what have you got to hide? (my highlighting)


Christopher Pincher . I am obliged to the right hon. Lady for giving us a run-down of her interest in smears and conspiracy theories. She wonders where Professor Stone was in the 1980s—I rather wonder where the Leader of the Opposition was in the 1980s and, for that matter, in the 1990s, the 2000s and quite recently. It is rather rich for her to suggest that somehow the Conservative party and this Government are linked to Russian disinformation, given the way that her party leadership has acted and the responsibility that her party leadership has had down the years for being hand in hand with its Russian friends.​


In respect of the right hon. Lady’s question about publication, the Government and the Prime Minister have a responsibility under the Justice and Security Act 2013 to look properly at the report, and that is what he is doing. The turnaround time for this report is not unusual. The response time to the Committee is not unusual. The CT attacks report and the detainee report took some time to turn around. I understand why the right hon. Lady may wish—for party political purposes in this febrile time, as the House of Commons is about to dissolve—to make the points that she has, but they are entirely refutable. I believe, personally, that they are reprehensible, and I wish that she would withdraw the imputation about the good name of the Conservative party and this Government.


The Labour centrist, Stella Creasy, Waltham Forest raised similar issues. “We all in the House will know from our email inboxes that one of the challenges facing our current politics is that people watch too much Netflix and so are convinced that there are many conspiracies. That said, given that, as ISC members have said, many foxes have been set lose—reports about Sergey Nalobin, about Dominic Cumming’s security clearance, about Alexander Temerko’s friendship with the Prime Minister, about the use of the Lycamobile offices; given that the security agencies say they are happy to see the report, which the Government have had since March, published; given the cross-party support for it to be published; and given that Earl Howe in the House of Lords yesterday said it is the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister alone who needs to publish it, does the Minister recognise that the best way to kill the conspiracy theories is to put it out in the open? Former Prime Ministers have told us that sunlight is the best disinfectant. Why has this Prime Minister closed the blinds? “

Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)Given the gaps and inaccuracies in his account of the three years that he spent in Russia, why was Dominic Cummings inexplicably granted the highest developed vetting status, yet is routinely denied access to secret intelligence? What damage is this unprecedented arrangement doing to our vital security arrangements with our Five Eyes partners?” (My highlighting).


Mr Keith Simpson (Broadland) (Con). I declare an interest as a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee, and I absolutely support what our Chairman said. This is a question of principle as much as anything else. I will not go into the details of what the report is about—there have been a lot of foxes let loose by the media—but I have this question to put to the Minister, and I feel sorry for him that he has been landed with having to answer this, rather than perhaps someone from the Cabinet Office. As far as the Committee is concerned, this report has been cleared by the intelligence and security agencies. It has been cleared by the Cabinet Office, and the civil servants and officials saw no reason whatsoever why it should not have been published. Will the Minister therefore tell the House—I do not want to hear all that repetition again—why the Prime Minister is not going to allow this report to be released and published in this Parliament? (my highlighting)


Christopher Pincher. Before I answer his question, I would like to say farewell to my right hon. Friend, who has been a steadfast Member of this House and a doughty champion of defence and security issues, both here and on the ISC. He asks a straightforward question. I will give him the straightforward answer. The Prime Minister has a responsibility under the 2013 Act to properly and carefully adjudicate upon the report before him, and that is what he is doing, but it takes some time.


David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab) Thank you, Mr Speaker—and congratulations. As a Labour member of the ISC, I support the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), the Chair of the Committee, and share his concerns. The security services have cleared our report, the Cabinet Office has cleared our report, and we have made recommendations to the Prime Minister. Since receiving the report, has the Prime Minister read it, and has he submitted any redactions? I do not need to know what they are, but has he read it, and has he submitted redactions? If not, why does he not publish today?​


Christopher Pincher. A report such as this—a sensitive report that is 50 pages long—requires careful consideration. As I said, it was submitted on 17 October and is being reviewed by all the relevant senior officials within government and at No. 10. The Committee will be informed of that process, and when the Prime Minister has concluded that the report is publishable, he will publish it.


Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP) first paid tribute to Mr Grieve and commented that “The Russian Government’s greatest victims are their own people, with human rights abuses, and human rights and democracy activists, opposition groups and minorities targeted. I spent several years working in the former Soviet Union, and we in the Foreign Affairs Committee have visited as well, and I pay tribute to the bravery of those who campaign for fairness, the rule of law and democracy in that country. Surely the greatest riposte we can make, and the greatest support we can give those campaigners, is to show that democracy, openness and transparency in the UK are something to look up to. I fear that in this case they are not.


I hope the Minister is embarrassed by what he has just heard from the members of the ISC. Their questions were damning, and I am not surprised he did not ​answer them. Given the threat Russia poses to elections, and given that his Government have wanted an election for months, why is this not a priority? Brexit has taught us that this Government like to hide unhelpful reports—lots of them—so prove me wrong and publish the report. (my highlighting)


Mr David Davis a government supporter (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con). “That is what is missing here. By not releasing the report, all the Minister does is create a vacuum for the paranoid fantasies we have heard from the Opposition to fill.”


The leading member of European Reacher Group of hard Brexiteers, Stephen Baker, tried to help the government Minister saying “the Government is not entitled to be bullied into accelerating the release of important national security reports? Would it not be a dangerous precedent to establish that the Committee can come to the House and bully the Government into releasing such an important and sensitive report?


He was put down by the Minister. “ I do not think the Government are being bullied. Certainly, we are not prepared to be bullied. We want to make sure the report is given proper and careful consideration and that any further changes to or questions of it can be addressed. Then a properly balanced report can be published


Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con) raised the question of a” debate   on covert and malign foreign interference —not only any attempts on our side but why Seumas Milne always seems to peddle the Kremlin’s line and the links between senior people around the leader of the Labour party and pro-Russian groups in Ukraine and elsewhere. There would be a lot of interesting debate there.”  He was evidently not referring to President Trump and the CIA! 


He went on,  “My question to the Minister is a broader one. Does he agree that the best way to minimise the chances of malign and covert interference in our electoral system is through the introduction of a foreign agent’s registration Act? The US introduced one against covert Nazi influence in 1938 and the Australians produced a foreign influence ​transparency scheme just last year. I will be working with the Henry Jackson Society to produce a potential template Bill. Would the Minister be interested in discussing it with me should we both be re-elected in December?


Christopher Pincher. I am always interested to hear the ideas and read the reports of my hon. Friend. I would certainly be interested to see the work that parliamentary draftsmen may have to undertake in defining a foreign agent. Foreign agents tend to keep themselves rather quiet, it seems to me, so identifying them may be a challenge; but I am always interested to see what my hon. Friend has to offer. If we are both re-elected—and I wish him well in that enterprise—then of course, on the other side, we will talk” He should have added be careful what you wish for as this is something I am sure Labour will also investigate after December 12th in terms of  the USA, Israel and South Arabia.


Christopher Pincher. I am not going to comment on individual public servants. All I would say is that in asking the question that he asks, the right hon. Gentleman appears to be less a Member of Parliament than a walk-on member of a show like “24”.


Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con). In my time on the Intelligence and Security Committee, I have built up a healthy respect for the way in which we conduct parliamentary scrutiny of our secret intelligence agencies. Indeed, other Parliaments from around the world come to see how we do it. There is much in the report that I would love to be able to talk about here, and I would love to address some of the more eccentric conspiracy theories that we have heard peddled here, but it comes down to this. We have a highly respected system of parliamentary oversight which is trusted across the House. Does my right hon. Friend not feel that in the absence of this report’s publication, we have created a climate which has allowed some quite bizarre conspiracy theories to be peddled, and that it would be much better to publish what has been written in the way in which the Committee produced it?


Christopher Pincher   Let me also bid farewell to my right hon. Friend, who has been a fine Member of Parliament for Newbury over the last 18 years. We will miss him: we will miss his intelligence, his care and his consideration. He wonders whether, by acting in a different way, we would reduce the propensity towards conspiracy theories. I suspect that the answer is no. I think that those conspiracy theories would find their way into the light in any event, thanks to some Opposition Members.


All I can do is to repeat what I have already said to my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker). This report requires careful consideration. It requires the Prime Minister to do his duty by the Justice and Security Act, and that is what he will do.


Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (LD), There are serious questions to be answered. I say to Members on that side of the House that it is perfectly legitimate for Members on this side of the House to ask the questions that we are asking. Our job is to scrutinise what the Government are doing. Clearly there are serious questions to be answered in relation to the role of Mr Dominic Cummings, one of the most senior officials in Government. Perhaps the answers will allay our concerns, but we deserve to hear those answers. I have to say that the Minister’s response today has been utterly shameful. Let me ask him this. Is he denying that, if the shoe was on the other foot and he was at the Opposition Dispatch Box, he would be asking for the report to be published, as we are?


Christopher Pincher. The job of Members of Parliament is to scrutinise legislation and reports and not to fantasise about them, which is what I think all too many Opposition Members are doing. The Government have a duty to scrutinise properly the report that was presented to them by the ISC on 17 October. The Prime Minister has a duty to ask searching questions about the report, and to satisfy himself that nothing in it breaches our security privileges and the national security of the country. When that job is done, and not before, the report will be published.


Mark Pritchard is known for being on the right of the Conservative, having controversial and outspoken views and for a public argument with former speaker John Bercow. Less known is that he was brought up in residential and foster care. He said. “Is it not the reason that there is no emergency and no cover, and that this is just a manifestation of a considered bureaucratic process? May I draw the Minister’s attention to some comments that my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) has made over the past 24 hours? As a matter of courtesy, I informed his office that I would be making these comments. To the media, he said, “I can think of no good reason why the ISC report is not being published.” While my right hon. and learned Friend is indeed very learned, the fact that he does not know of a reason does not necessarily mean that there is not a reason. I wonder whether the Minister can confirm that.


Christopher Pincher  “My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield has every right to ask questions and make comments in the media. That is his duty as a Member of Parliament, and his right as the Chairman of the ISC. However, it is the duty of the Prime Minister, with his officials, to consider the report properly. That is what he is doing, and until that job is done properly the report should not be published—and the turnaround for publication is not unusual.


Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab) The Minister says that the process that he is going through at the moment is not unusual, and the secretariat of the ISC says that it is unprecedented. Both cannot be right. Will the Minister take account of the fact that the secretariat, the Cabinet Office, the whole civil service and the security agencies have all said that no problem of national security is involved? Surely he must conclude that if this is not a matter of national security, the reason why the report is not being published is political. Will he take my advice and publish, or be damned?


Christopher Pincher. The timelines for the submission of the report, relative to the timelines of submissions of previous reports, speak for themselves. The CT attacks ​report took about six weeks to turn around, with four weeks between its submission and a response from the Government, and the detainees report took about three weeks from the point of submission to the point of response. Such timelines are not unusual, and, although I am sure that they were made in absolute good faith, I do not recognise the comments of the ISC secretariat. The timelines speak for themselves.


Tom Tugendhat  of Tonbridge and Malling, Conservative said that “The Minister is entirely right to say that scrutiny dispels fantasy, and this is one of those moments when I feel that scrutiny would be entirely appropriate to dispel that fantasy. There can be few Members like my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), or my right hon. Friend the Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson), or, indeed, many other members of the ISC, who were all personally chosen by the Prime Minister for their judgment, their character and their wisdom. Would it not be appropriate—at a moment when the country is focused on the most important democratic event that we will hold for, certainly, a number of years—for the information that is needed for us to judge its legitimacy to be put before the House, so that people can see the fantasy that some are claiming, and this can all go away?


Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)  “ have a very simple question for the Minister. There is clearly unease about the delay in the report’s publication. Will the Minister confirm that it is not being withheld in the interests of the Conservative party?


Christopher Pincher. No, it is not.


Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)  “The Minister, sent by the Prime Minister so that he can avoid scrutiny himself, says that the length of time that the report has been with the Government is not unusual, but will he acknowledge that the report itself is unusual because it is about interference in elections and we are just about to embark on a general election? So, if the Government continue to block it after the security services have cleared it, that can only be either because they do not take the ISC Committee seriously or because they have something to hide, and can the Minister clarify which of those two it is?


Christopher Pincher  That was another of those questions: there we go again with a little light fantasising. The Committee has produced a serious report—

Emily Thornberry . You are taking sneering to a whole new level.


Christopher Pincher. The right hon. Lady from a sedentary position accuses me of sneering. I think that is pretty rich, I have to say, but I will press on as politely as I possibly can to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) on her question.


It is not unusual for time to be taken to consider serious reports. This is a serious report and it should be considered in a timely way. In the meantime, I would say to the hon. Lady that there is no evidence to suggest that Russia or the Kremlin has successfully engaged in interference in our electoral processes; if she believes that there is, please bring that information forward, but we have seen none.


Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op) May I be helpful to the Minister? I listened to your speech yesterday, Mr Speaker, and you will note that this urgent question goes to the heart of our proceedings: this is an all-party report, the Government are not publishing it, they should publish it, and there is all-party support for it to be published. Only a few minutes ago we had the Foreign Secretary here, and he could have stayed to make a statement. This is a very important issue. I want to fight this election on health, employment, jobs and all those other important things. If we do not stop this issue now, it will run and run, almost like a Watergate thing, throughout the campaign, so please publish the report now and let’s get on with the general election on the real issues.


Christopher Pincher. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: let’s fight the election on the real issues—on migration issues, on health, on education, on our stance on Brexit. Let’s get out there and do it, and let’s stop stirring the pot on this non-issue.


Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)  Does the Minister accept and understand that the report has been cleared, and failure to publish today will mean, as a number of Members across the House have said, that almost every day for the next five weeks this will permeate the campaign? That can and should be avoided by publication today.


Christopher Pincher. I suspect that the campaign, like most campaigns, will focus on domestic issues. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will be fighting very hard in his constituency on matters that concern his constituents, and I suspect this will be one of them.


Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)  I have noted that two or three times the Minister has said that there has been no successful penetration into the British electoral system. Does that imply that there has been unsuccessful penetration into the electoral system, and is that one of the reasons why the report has not been published?


Christopher Pincher . The hon. Gentleman I think might have now spoken for the last time in this Chamber and we wish him well in whatever he does next. Maybe, ​like Tony Benn, he will retire from the House of Commons and go into real politics; we shall see. He asked whether there are examples of unsuccessful interference in British politics, and the way that the Kremlin has behaved is clear; we have seen examples overseas of attempts at electoral interference, and of attempts at fake news and disinformation, most recently in Georgia. What I would say is that we have robust systems in place in this country to defend ourselves against such attacks, and that is why I say that such attacks have not been successful.


Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab) We know that there was overseas interference in the US presidential election and the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee in its disinformation report last year called for an independent inquiry based on evidence that we produced to the Government. That request to the Government was rejected, and is not the problem that this decision to withhold this report is part of a course of conduct by this Government to refuse to look at whether there has been the level of interference that many in the country believe?


Christopher Pincher The hon. Gentleman also may be leaving the Commons very soon, and I wish him well in his future path. He asked a reasonable question because disinformation tactics continue to evolve and therefore we must always be on our guard. The “Online Harms” White Paper that the Government produced commits us to introducing a duty of care on online companies to tackle a wide range of online harms, and they include limiting the spread of disinformation. With respect to the election in the United States, of course lots of comments have been made and suggestions and allegations have been heard. I am not going to comment on the US election; all I can say is that I think the US has as robust a system as we do.


Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (LD) Further to the previous question, I am not in the business of peddling conspiracy theories, but I do look at credible sources and was disturbed by the release of the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report last month that did find Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, which makes the release of this report all the more important, all the more relevant and all the more imperative as we embark on the democratic process of an election in our country. Can the Minister confirm this today: has the Prime Minister read the report?


Christopher Pincher The hon. Lady is right to draw attention to the actions of the Kremlin in states abroad. I have said that we have evidence from around the world ​of activity that is malign and malicious. I believe that we here in the UK have a robust set of systems in place to defend ourselves. We will look closely at the report that the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield and his Committee have submitted to the Government. It is going through the No. 10 process and at the end of that rigorous review process we will see the report.


Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab) We have heard from several Members of the ISC this afternoon, including three sat behind the Minister, and all have highlighted that every security agency required to do so has signed off this report, as has the Cabinet Office. The unprecedented delay is due to the Prime Minister. Is that because the Prime Minister is acting in the unprecedented fashion of subjugating national security to personal and political interests and his loyalty to Dominic Cummings, a man already found to be in contempt of Parliament?


The short answer is no. The report has to go through a proper and rigorous process of scrutiny. It was submitted to the Government on 17 October. The time being taken to scrutinise it is not unusual; to say it is unprecedented is not accurate. Other reports—other sensitive reports, and complicated reports—have taken between four and six weeks to turn around; this important and sensitive report is no different.


Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab) Mr Speaker Last, but certainly not least, representing the safest seat in the country I call Stephen Timms. Stephen Timms Thank you, Mr Speaker, and many congratulations to you. The Committee Chair reminds us that if the Prime Minister is unable to respond within 10 days he is required to provide an explanation for that failure. He has not provided an explanation, which, we understand, is unprecedented. Why has the Prime Minister not complied with the requirement placed upon him?


Christopher Pincher It is because there is no requirement. The memorandum of understanding with the Committee is clear about the rules: there is no set timeline for a response and there is no set deadline in the governing legislation. The Prime Minister has a duty under the 2013 Act to look carefully and considerately at such reports. That is what No. 10 is doing, that is what the Prime Minister will do, and when that work is completed the report will be published”. 


There was immediate refence in the mainstream media to what was said and Newsnight devoted the first part of its programme on Friday evening, concluding that No 10 had decided to put political expediency before responsible government, which  fits in with all those who allege that Boris will say and do what is required to get and stay in office. 


A different source  made this point when explaining the incoherent attempt by the Prime Minister to justify the decision to remove the backstop by accepting a border between northern Ireland and the three other home nations, something with the European Community negotiators had offered Teresa May but she had rejected because it was unacceptable to the Democratic Unionists and would embolden the Scottish Nationalist Party to go for another Independence referendum. I accept that Mr Johnson was not drunk but like former Speaker John Bercow, he appears able to generate and sustain a High without the need for some form of external stimulant.


The  fact that Russia supported the Independence referendum, supported the Leave campaign and that individual  wealthy Russians have supported the Tory Party with  hundreds of thousands of pounds may not affect the outcome of General Election.


Nor do I suspect will the behaviour of the former Secretary of State of Wales in supporting a candidate, and his former aide, which a judge ordered him to leave the court for sabotaging a rape trial, will affect the outcome of what happens in Wales, despite Alan Cairns being the first Cabinet Minister to resign during the period of a general election.


In fact, a recent investigation into the voting intentions in one part of Wales suggests that people are more upset by the comment made on a London radio station by Jacob Rees Mogg criticising the intelligence of  victims for not disobeying the instructions of officialdom not to leave their accommodation and the building.  In a subsequent end of Parliament Debate in the House of Commons on Tuesday, one conservative complained that there were fewer Members who had been to Eton in the present Parliament than when he entered. The numbers from memory were 46 and 70. The kind of family and education experienced by Rees Mogg is designed for him to believe he has the ability to rule than be ruled, and  I suspect that the majority of those resident in Grenfell Tower were brought up to respect and accept the authority of government and its representatives.


No one should be taken in by the cultured well mannered outward appearance of Rees Mogg as it covers as ruthless and determined a character as Boris Johnson. Rees Mogg does not appear to care if he is liked by the general  voters and appears to enjoy courting  attention such as lounging contemptuously on the benchers of the House of Commons or taking his son to Parliament on a day when trouble was to be expected on the streets. It is said that Boris needs to be liked and consequently says whatever he believes an audience wants to hear.


What  Mr Rees Mogg said has implications beyond the residents of Grenfell tower and their relatives. I am sure he did not appreciate that what he said can be interpreted  as also saying that ordinary persons of Jewish faith and origin in Nazi Germany, or the other Nazi occupied countries,  were wrong to accept the instructions  by those in authority, to board the trains which led to the extermination camps.


A better example where those ordering did not display guns or were part of an established authoritarian regime, occurred at Hillsborough. Is Mr Rees Mogg saying the Liverpool football supporters should have ignored  the commands of the police on their instructions where and when to enter the stadium? Mr Rees Mogg should have resigned. His apology is not good enough.

In the United States and in Britain there is evidence we have  state leaders prepared to misuse power in their own and political party interests, with deliberate calculation saying anything whether it is true,  misleading or false, to retain power. 


In contrast the Labour Party is led by someone with proven political integrity over decades and with a record of being open, honest  and right. 


On one hand, a Party seeking authoritarian control over Parliament and the people and on the other a Party seeking to widen democratic participation and take decisions in the interests of the majority, including on the issue of Brexit, giving everyone the choice between the least damaging from of Leave or Remain. 


It is common sense shared with the majority of the electorate .