On Thursday 11th August 2011, the British Parliament responded to the organised riotous destruction of property, threatening lives, making families homeless and destroying businesses and livelihoods in most but not all of the major cities of England and which appears to have led to the deaths of five men, the injury of 14 civilians and over 100 police officers. Only this weekend has the full scale of the rioting and the criminality become evident and the need for Government, the Official Opposition, politicians and civic leaders to address the issues which have led to the situation and which have been in the making since the 1960’s
Like most people who watched in horror, anger and upset, but in my instance something I have feared for sometime would happen, I had and have many questions which I hope the Home Affairs Select Committee will seek to provide answers in relation to what happened and why it was allowed to develop so quickly and on such a scale.
I listened to the Prime Minister’s statement and questioning and to the subsequent debate and then commenced study of the official report and then on Friday 11th watched the same statement followed by questions and comments in the House of Lords and then studied the initial published report. I am impressed that many of my questions were immediately answered, and I am also impressed at the approach taken by Government and Opposition spokesmen and women and by the contribution of those who questioned and contributed in the debates.
The first task was to stop the criminal insurrection, to arrest and to bring to justice those who organised and instigated and unfortunately this also meant that some who opportunistically became involved will be treated and branded in the same way as the more seasoned criminals involved. The second is to take immediate remedial action which is my understanding the approach of the Government and third to address the more complex and therefore the more difficult issues which several decades of politicians have failed to solve. I also support the approach being taken by the Opposition leader in his speech today and it may be more profitable for the Opposition to set up the proposed commission with programmes developed for the next General Election Campaign. For once I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Cameron that it is essential that immediate measures are taken to break the gang culture but I also agree with Mr Miliband that without creating the structure of alternatives such measures will prove of short term effectiveness.
My questions for the Home Affaires Committee commenced with what happened and who were involved. Yesterday I concentrated on the death of Mark Duggan and that a peaceful march to Tottenham Police Station was asked to wait for five hours before a Police Officer responded. The Independent Police Complaints Commission is conducting an investigation into this matter and Mr David Lammy, the Member of Parliament for Tottenham is leading his community in wanting to know what happened on the day Mr Duggan was killed, on the Friday and then on the Saturday which led to the destruction of part of the Town centre and the threatened loss of life. As I also reported yesterday despite the Party Political divided between Mr Lammy and the Prime Minister, Mr Cameron was clear that he was also determined to learn what happened, as were Members of the House of Lords when the Prime Minister’s statement was repeated, notably by Lord Harris with a distinguished political background in local government over a 24 year period completing 12 years as Council Leader in Haringey, the local authority responsible for Tottenham, and also as chair of the Association of Metropolitan Authorities. He has been a chair of the Metropolitan Police Authority and continues to serve on the authority as the representative of the Home Secretary to oversee its work on counter terrorism and national security. It would be surprising if Mrs May, the Home Secretary, has not consulted Lord Harris during the past week. Lord Harris of Haringey said: My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Metropolitan Police Authority and a former leader of Haringey Council, where I spent about 12 years of my life trying to secure the sustainable regeneration of the area of Tottenham. One of the tragedies of what has happened in the past few days is that the stigma of an area of riot has again fallen on that community, and that the efforts built up over many years are now being undermined, with businesses no longer being able to survive. Do the Government believe that the Bellwin formula will be a sufficient response to ensure the reconstruction that will be needed? This will be of communities after the damage that has been done, and must also tackle underlying problems. Will they review the resources being made available to local government for regeneration in such areas? Will they also review the way in which the Riot (Damages) Act operates? If it would drain funds from police forces to compensate people who have been hit and damaged by the riots, that would be extremely damaging to the sustaining of police numbers
in future. Finally, what advice was taken from the police service about the decision that water cannon should be made available on the mainland? It is used usually for the dispersal of large crowds, but the problem in this case was caused by small groups of people acting opportunistically.
There was also praise and agreement with what Mr Lammy had to say from Michael Gove, the Education Cabinet Minister who concluded the debate in the House of Commons. He said in Col 1201/2: “I should like briefly to refer to four particularly outstanding speeches that were made during the debate, the first of which came from the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy). The points that he made resonated. From the moment that Mark Duggan’s tragic death came on to our television screens through to the horrific scenes that we saw over the weekend, the right hon. Gentleman’s voice has been one of common sense and moral clarity at a difficult time. His speech again today was superb, when he pointed out that the vast majority of young men did indeed show respect and restraint through the past week because they have grown up with a male role model, a moral code and a recognition of boundaries. He made the critical point that our great cities of course rely on our police forces, but ultimately order is policed by individuals who show pride, shame and responsibility to others. I could not have put it better myself.
As I also mentioned yesterday the spreading of the criminality throughout London and to other cities in parts of England changed what would have been a local disaster and tragedy into a national crisis and one of the first questions which I hope the Home Affairs Committee will answer is why the same kind if behaviour did immediately spread to other parts of mainland, in Scotland and the North East of England or in Wales?
I also said yesterday that from the outset I did not understand the police response given 50 years of involvement and working with the police, speculating on the accumulative impact of the establishment of Operation Elvden, the resignations of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner and an Assistant Police Commissioner together with reference of the conduct of several senior police officers to the Police Complaints Commission, following on the decision to freeze pay, require additional pension contributions and evidently long needed reforms within the framework of phased cash reductions to budgets during the Parliament plus the decision for a serving officer to be charged with manslaughter during the Kettling of protestors and passers by. I intentionally did not focus on the proposals to introduce a new style of local public accountability with the appointment of a Police Commissioner because I do not know of this will advance public and political accountability.
I also said I am appalled at the response of senior policemen and police representatives subsequently to the public and political criticism of their ineffective action and inaction over those traumatic days and that I hope that Parliament collectively, and the Labour Leadership will support the Coalition in reinforcing the supremacy of Parliament and the rule of Law in determining Police Policy, setting policing priorities and budgets, organisation and staffing establishments. Through the overstaffed and questionable Metropolitan public relations department and the Police Federation there appears to be an attempt to try and present a version of events which is at odds with what actually happened and where fortunately there is visual and audio evidence from the British media.
After concentrating on Tottenham on the Saturday I now turn to the events on the Sunday leaving those of Monday and Tuesday for separate reports unless there was continued criminality on subsequent night. I have again focused on the contributions made by Members of the House of Commons from the affected constituencies and with the help of the Timeline provided by Wikipedia and some of the printed media reports together with my recollections from watching BBC and Sky News, ITN and Channel Four News throughout the period of challenging and devastating criminal unrest in which a number of others could not resist the opportunity to participate and to steal.
On Sunday August 7th it is evident that the Metropolitan Police became aware that a criminal riot was being organised to take place in Enfield and Ponders End, an area North of Tottenham. Riot Police were ready as according to Wikipedia in “Enfield Town centre, Enfield Town Park and alleyways between there and the Palace Garden shopping centre were being guarded by police. A heavy police presence was seen outside Enfield Town railway station where people arriving were being searched for security reasons. Riot police had arrived in Enfield Town by the afternoon of 7 August as several small groups of hooded youngsters arrived in cars, buses and trains. Around 100 people were waiting in small groups in the vicinity of Enfield Town station in Southbury Road”
There are several issues arising from this information which need to be addressed. If the Police had intlligence why were they not better and more effectively prepared. The kind of numbers mentioned is not new.
Yesterday I mentioned how a smaller group of hooligans had somehow gained tickets for stand allocated to away football supporters at Tottenham football stadium in the mid 1980’s and had sat in small groups until the start of the match when they assembled as a group, who evidently knew each other, to hurtle objects and liquid over the heads of a dozen away supports also in the stand onto the the main body of away supporters standing below. Also in the 1980’s, the precise dates and sequence of events was made available to the Home Affairs Committee at that time two experiences occurred earlier of matching significance. The first when I exited from a football match at Chelsea stadium before the end, taking a side road to reach an underground station away from from the closest station at the ground, and encountered up to 100 men in small groups lounging along the road in silence. Suddenly there was the chant from the away supporters in the distance leaving the ground under escort to their coaches and one of those in the street raised an umbrella and the youths and men formed themselves into a formal march in ranks and went off at the trot, continuing in silence in the direction of the away supporters. I continued to try and move away from the area but a short time afterwards a running group of youths and men were encountered, pursued by police on horseback and in motor vehicles. I and other pedestrians sought security in shop doorways. About an hour after the match ended I was in an underground train which came to a station where there were several hundred youths and men packed onto the platform. The train stopped but the doors remained closed as a consdeqeunce of which those on the platform smashed their way into two adjacent coaches and set about attacking individuals in the compartments hanging onto roof straps, hitting with knuckle dusters and kicking out with boots.
In a separate instance a gang of West Ham supporters travelling from Wimbledon AFC smashed their way out of an underground train in order to get onto the platforn of a station where the police were preventing another gang supporting Chelsea from getting to the platform. The train had to be taken out of service and a member of the railway police subsequently said that reinforcements had to be called as the police had become outnumbered by the violent force of the two groups which the force was trying to keep separated..
According to Wikipedia on the Sunday some disorder sparked from around 5:30 in Enfield; a police car in Church Street was pelted with bricks. HMV's branch in Church Street was amongst the other shops that were reportedly attacked. A police helicopter hovered over the area to monitor events. At around 19:00, police tackled a group of around thirty youths to push them back onto Southbury Road towards the junction with Great Cambridge Road. Police dogs were also deployed at the scene. Similar action drove back approximately 50 people along Southbury Road via Queens Street, after a preceding clash with rioters outside a nearby supermarket.[At 19:30, both Metropolitan Police officers and reinforcements from Kent Police turned Enfield into a cordoned off "sterile area" and began to deal with local disturbances.These included robberies of the Enfield Retail Park.The scenes of Enfield were "reminiscent of Tottenham, though smaller.
Enfield and Ponders End saw more trouble on the morning of 8 August according to Wikipedia when several shops in Enfield Town and in the nearby A10 retail park were vandalised and looted, and there were reports of two vehicles set on fire. A large crowd of youths moved westwards, toward nearby Ponders End and wrecked a local Tesco. Hundreds of riot police and canine units arrived with vans and charging at groups of teenagers until they disappeared into local side streets, smashing cars and shop windows on the way. Looting had spread to Enfield. A large Sony distribution centre was set alight and the fire destroyed the building with couds of black smoke dominating the London Skyline Given the police presence on both days and the inability to stop trhe criminal damage and looting the reaction of the two local Members of Parliament is understandable as well as the decision of local men whatever their political leadings to start to patrol the streets in numbers or that some had has had a drink beforehand. They showed great courage given what had happened and their efforts as the actions of others who took similar action is to be applauded.
Following the statement ofi the Prime Minister in the House of Commons. Nick de Bois (Enfield North) Col 1063: “My constituents and I witnessed shocking events in Enfield on Sunday and Monday. What was particularly shocking was the age of a number of the culprits. Will the Prime Minister ask the police authorities to work with the education authorities to identify the many secondary school children who were out there causing these crimes?” The Prime Minister: “ That is certainly a sensible suggestion. Over and above that, we must recognise that the responsibility for the fact that some of these children—I use the word “children” advisedly—are out on the streets rests with their parents. We need parents to take more responsibility for their children, teach them the difference between right and wrong, and point out that this sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable.”
Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) Col 1085/86: “ My constituents will commend the Prime Minister’s statement and the Leader of the Opposition’s sentiments, which are in marked contrast to those of the former London Mayor, whose shameful comments seeking to justify the riots that wreaked havoc in places such as Enfield should be condemned by all the House. Although we provide unqualified support to our police, is this about not just resources but empowering our police—perhaps to get their hands on water cannon or rubber bullets, but to free them up by reducing both the time that it takes to process individual arrests and this risk-averse culture, which is tying their hands?” The Prime Minister: As my hon. Friend used to work as a solicitor, he knows well that far too much time is taken up in paperwork after an arrest is made. We need to cut down that paperwork. Joint working between the police and the CPS is already helping with that. Virtual courts are helping, and the 24-hour courts that have been working around the clock have made a big difference, too.
Mr Nick de Bois (Enfield North) Col 1166/67 then contributed to subsequent debate: May I use some valuable seconds and take this opportunity to enjoy a decent moment in this difficult debate, and say congratulations to the hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) on her recent wedding and that I am very sorry that her honeymoon was interrupted?
I made a solemn promise to my constituents at half- past 9 on Sunday 7 August, having spent four hours witnessing what was happening to our constituency. That promise was simply that at the first opportunity I would come to this House so that Members could hear first hand what had happened and the views of my constituents. I will therefore focus entirely on that in the few minutes that I have to speak. It is important that those views are represented, because they are also reflected elsewhere.
At around 6 o’clock in the evening, as youths—generally under the age of 25—gathered in our town centre, it became clear that this had been built up by social media throughout the day. The first outbreak occurred at about 7 o’clock, when those youths—150 of them—took to the high street, having gathered together, and then started their rampage down Church street in Enfield town. Sadly, although that outbreak was contained relatively quickly by good police work, it led to the destruction of some very good shops that have been there for more than 30 years. Mantella, the jewellery store, which has been a sole trader for more than 30 years in Enfield, lost more than £40,000 of stock. Pearsons, one of the few independent retailers with a long legacy in Enfield, was damaged front and back. And what was stolen? It was the good quality leather handbags. With a clear target in mind, high-quality goods ware taken.
We lost many, many stores down our high street, but at that point it was not over. For about an hour, the youths increased their numbers. As I stood among them, I heard them on their phones organising to bring other people up and talking about what trains they should take. Indeed, some of them hinted at where they may be going next.
Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) intervened “Is my hon. Friend aware that there were riots recently in a holiday resort in Spain where the police used very robust tactics? We have heard talk about water cannon, but they used rubber bullets. Does my hon. Friend think that if the people rampaging through his constituency had seen pictures on TV of rubber bullets or water cannon being used, they would have had the incentive to go out and commit copycat crimes?
Nick de Bois: My hon. Friend makes a good point. Indeed, he reflects the views of my constituents in advance of what I was going to say. Of course they were very distressed, and one of the questions—one of the wishes—was, “Why do we not use water cannons or rubber bullets?” They have proved effective in other locations. I accept that they are limited in their effectiveness in some parts—indeed, around London it would be difficult—but this case was a classic example of a wide town centre where dispersal could have been achieved, which might have changed things. Indeed, I believe that the mere threat would also restrict any future activity.
Unfortunately, later in the evening, when the outburst grew more serious and the thugs attacked a police vehicle containing a territorial support group unit, they would disperse and run up nearby residential streets—quiet, detached streets. It was there, at around 9.30, that 30 or 40 of them ran past me, pushing a 70-year-old man out of the way. We were face to face with them in the garden of some neighbours, and as they ran past, with their foul-mouthed abuse—these brave individuals, hidden behind their hoodies across their faces, clutching their expensive mobile phones—they embarked on finding their rather souped-up cars, which were parked in the same residential street. This was no moral crusade. This was not a campaign for social justice; this was simply criminal activity by those determined to profit from it. My constituents are furious at what happened to their town, but what is worrying was the extreme arrogance of the individuals involved. They had no fear of being recognised and no sense of right and wrong. As a country we now have to address this issue, and we will look at how to deal with such issues in the future.
Mr Burrowes: My hon. Friend describes the high street that we share as constituency neighbours. On the subject of what we will do about it, he will go home on the tube with me and we will see the headlines about the fury at the soft sentences being handed down to the latest offenders. Does he share my concern that the punishment must fit the crime? If it is not to be prison, it must be proper restitution, paying for their plunder and repairing the damage that they have done to our communities.
Nick de Bois: My hon. Friend and neighbour, who suffered similar problems, identifies a key point. One of the other wishes of my constituents was that justice should be seen to be served. It is not unreasonable to expect that the thugs involved should receive custodial sentences and be put to good use in repairing some of the damage that they have done. We must take them out of this cycle of crime and make efforts to reform them.
I have three questions and I would be grateful for answers. The railway line ends at Enfield Town station. During the course of the day, the trains were packed with people coming to cause mayhem. A request was made to Transport for London to stop some of those trains, and the buses that were coming from other parts of London. It never happened, and my constituents would like to know why.
Secondly, we believe that the vast majority of these criminals were not from Enfield, as I saw first hand myself. If we share information from CCTV and YouTube with the education authorities and the police, they can work together to identify more of them. Thirdly, why were we not able to disperse the more than 100 people who were there in the early hours?
Let me pay tribute to the borough commander, Dave Tucker, and his team, and to Enfield council, who are now working together. Enfield is open for business. It has recovered well and our last legacy sadly” the time limit was reached.
The Education Cabinet Minister Michael Gove commented Col 1201 : My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) drew a vivid and affecting picture of how one of London’s most attractive suburbs could be convulsed by violence, as individuals intent on wrongdoing took to the streets in the most wicked of ways. He asked detailed and constructive questions about the roles that the local authority, schools and TFL can play in making sure that our response to future events is sharper. We will write to him to ensure that his constituents’ concerns are addressed..”
Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) then had the opportunity to also address the House col 1192/3 : Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to speak about the appalling events that hit Enfield on Sunday night. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois), who gave a good account of those awful events. They also washed into Waltham Cross, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), who has taken a close interest in the issue, and into my constituency.
My constituents would want me to express a number of emotions on their behalf during the brief period available to me. Those emotions include, of course, sympathy for the businesses whose livelihoods simply went in a matter of hours. My hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Jane Ellison) made the good point that we must never understate the importance of the livelihoods of those businesses, and that must be reflected in how we enforce the law and punish those who seek to denigrate it.
Another of those emotions is shame: shame that one of the oldest department stores in north London, and in Enfield itself, has had to bring in counsellors to counsel members of staff who are still traumatised by what happened on Sunday night, and a dog team to reassure staff and customers about future trade. A jeweller has put sandbags in front of a shop that was raided, and other shops are boarded up because their owners are still in fear.
A further important emotion is the feeling of support for the emergency services, which have made such a brave and sterling effort in Enfield: for the action of the local police, for the strong leadership of David Tucker, their borough commander, and for their bravery and—despite enormous provocation—extraordinary restraint. However, my constituents want, and wanted at the time, tougher action and more police. The wave of violence that hit Enfield was intolerable, and it then crashed down on Croydon, Clapham Junction and Ealing, and beyond. My constituents have a serious question to ask: why did it take until Tuesday for that particularly robust policing to arrive on the streets? They want to give their unqualified support to our police, in terms of not just numbers but empowerment. They want the police to be free from the time-consuming process of processing individuals from arrest to charge, and from the risk-averse culture that advocates containment rather than confrontation.
However, there is also the issue of enforcement. The right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) reported reassuring news in an evening paper about instant justice, but there is less reassuring news from today’s edition of the London Evening Standard, which has the headline “Riot Police Fury at Soft Sentences”. Members on both sides of the House have referred to the riots on their streets, but, although 400 people have been charged, there has not yet been a charge of riot. I am assured, and I recognise, that there is a heavy evidential burden and that there will probably be charges in future, but that raises the issue of the serious offence of riot.Guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service lists the characteristics of riots. For instance,
“the normal forces of law and order have broken down”—
they certainly broke down in Enfield—and
“due to the intensity of the attacks on police and other civilian authorities normal access by emergency services is impeded by mob activity”.
That happened in Enfield as well. Next it says that
“due to the scale and ferocity of the disorder, severe disruption and fear is caused to members of the public”.
That happened in Enfield, too. It also says that
“the violence carries with it the potential for a significant impact upon a significant number of non-participants”.
That happened in Enfield and beyond.
We must ensure that when these offences come before the courts, even though the specific crime may be burglary or theft, they are all considered in the context that there was a riot, and the culprits are punished accordingly. We must look at the offence of riot to see whether it is fit for modern purposes.
There is little time left to consider the deeper issues involved here. Whereas in years gone by rioters shouted “Church and King”, they now shout for “Adidas and Nike.” The pursuit now is for appearance, possessions and brands, rather than meaningful relationships, where the father is influential. He may well now be absent. We must all reflect on, and then tackle, these questions of value and culture.”
I have focussed on Enfield because the police had intelligence and were prepared but they were unable to prevent damage and looting and the Members of Parliament have been at the forefront of calling for more robust policing and who can blame them.
There was also disorder in neighbouring Wood Green, during the early hours of 7 August, when widespread looting broke out[ in which around 100 youths targeted high-street game shops, electrical shops and clothing chains. Others ransacked local shops on Wood Green High Road. A family-run jeweller was among the retailers affected. Again, the police did not intervene to stop the looting. The mostly Turkish and Kurdish shop owners along Wood Green, Turnpike Lane and Green Lanes, were said to have formed local 'protection units' around their shops.
Unsurprisingly a third area when trouble could be anticipated was Brixton, London Borough of Lambeth and an area of previous riotous behaviour. According to Wikipedia. “Six fire engines fought a blaze at a Foot Locker shoe shop in Brixton Riot police and youths clashed near a local Currys store that was broken into during disturbances in Brixton. Speaking to The Daily Telegraph, a local resident described "hundreds" of men and women entering the electrical shop and emerging with TVs and other electrical goods. Upon police arriving, the looters attacked, throwing rocks and the contents of bins at officers. A branch of Halfords was targeted and looted by youths.[One Brixton resident said: “People were coming to Brixton from outside the area. I was getting out of Brixton Tube last night about 22:30 and going up the escalator when about 10 teenagers ran up the escalator and pushed me to one side. By 11:57, both Tesco and Foot Locker were targeted by looters. Lambeth Council’s leader, Councillor Steve Reed said of the mobs in Streatham, "They were looters not rioters Looting had spread to Brixton in the evening. Theer wa salso lootting in adjacent Stretham at T-Mobile, JD Sports and other shops were ransacked. Councillor Mark Bennett said the owner of one shop in Streatham High Road was hospitalised after a mob attacked the shop.
Mr Umunna Col 1139: “ I am grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way. The surge in officers that came after the decision taken at 9 am on Tuesday made a huge difference in my constituency and meant that we had a peaceful night. Did the commissioner explain why he did not increase the number of police to 16,000 sooner? The police in my constituency dealt with a really impossible situation and we are incredibly grateful to them, but why was that decision, which was announced by the Prime Minister at 9 am on Tuesday, not made sooner—for example, on Monday evening, because it was very clear in our area, given what had happened on Sunday night, that this would get far bigger?”
Mrs May: The hon. Gentleman raises a valid point. That is one of the issues that we need to look at in more detail when dealing with this. However, the answer that I would give him is that when the police were looking at their numbers and bringing in some mutual aid, which they did on Monday night, they were of the view that they would have the capacity to deal with what they believed was going to happen.
The police were dealing with a different situation from that which they had seen before. One comment that a number of chief constables and officers have made to me is that they were surprised by the speed with which gangs were able to mobilise through the use of social media, and I shall come on to the issue of social media. Very real questions have to be answered about how we take forward those policing matters, and that is why we need to make sure that we learn the lessons from that situation.
The hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) is right that the number of officers then put on the streets on Tuesday night was effective. That robust policing, coupled with a robust arrest policy, was effective; it has been continued, and other forces have followed it through. “
Earlier Mr Umunna had said to the Prime Minister Col 1078:” On Sunday and Monday night we saw violence, looting and ransacking in my constituency and my borough. Some people out in the country have sought to attribute these acts to particular racial or religious groups. While we may not know the exact causes of all the events around the country, does the Prime Minister agree that people of all different religions and races were responsible and that to racialise this issue is gravely wrong and does our country a great misservice? The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. This was not about race, it was about crime”
There was also looting Dalston London Borough of Hackney was reported at Kingsland shopping centre including JD Sports and Foot Locker. On the Monday Sporadic skirmishes were reported to have occurred between police and groups of young people in the area around Mare Street, Hackney. There were also reports of petrol bombs being thrown and youths throwing bottles and the contents of bins. Some bins have also been set on fire, and the mounted and riot police charged retreating gangs Cars were on fire, Miss Diane Abbot one of he loinger serving Members of Parliament and campaigners for the needs of young people to met in her Borough went on to the streets and remained so for several hours.
Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) col 1069: I was on the streets of Hackney at the height of the rioting on Monday night, and I know how frightened people were and remain. The most important thing is to regain control of our streets, but on the question of the Army, let me say this: I am well aware how attractive the further militarisation of this situation is to some Members of this House and even to some of my constituents, but the Prime Minister will be aware that Sir Hugh Orde, who has ordered the firing of baton rounds and the use of water cannons in Northern Ireland, is against the use of such things in the current situation. I say to this House, whether it is a popular thing to say or not, that the further militarisation of the situation we face will not help and might bring things to an even worse level.
The Prime Minister: First, let me agree with what the hon. Lady said, I think very powerfully, about the fact that this was criminality on the streets, and about how frightened people were. I agree with Hugh Orde and others who say that now is not the time to take such steps. Government have a responsibility to ask about contingencies: to work out what will happen next, and what would happen if things got worse. Those are responsibilities that we take very seriously. Let us, however, take this opportunity to pay tribute to what the armed services often do in our own country when it comes to floods and other emergencies. They play an incredible role, and we should thank them for it.”
Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) Col 118182): When I saw the flames on the streets of Tottenham on Saturday night, I had a deep sense of foreboding because I knew that it was only a matter of time before the same problems came to the streets of Hackney, not just because we have many of the same underlying social conditions but because the same gangs run backwards and forwards across the border between the two communities.
I want to stress that the pictures that people have seen on their television screens of looters in Hackney do not represent my community. What represents my community is the hundreds of people who turned out the following morning to clean up Hackney and to make good their community. I want to thank my council officers and my chief executive, Tim Shields. It is easy for Westminster politicians to denigrate council officers, but when people arrived to clean up Hackney at 10 am, council staff had been there before them and had swept Mare street and the surrounding streets, and everything was clean and orderly before 8 am. Council officers in Hackney had also been up all night monitoring CCTV, monitoring buildings in the high street for arson, and making sure the police got there to stop arson so that we did not see buildings in flames, as we saw in other parts of London. I would like to thank the emergency services and my borough commander, Steve Bending, who did the very best with the resources that were available to them.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): When my hon. Friend describes the response of the police in Hackney, does she share my concern that there was a poor and slow police response to what happened in the Tottenham Hale shopping centre? Does she agree that any inquiry into the policing activities must examine why there was so little police availability for that incident?
Ms Abbott: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend, but one has to admire people’s willingness to stand up for their community and defend their community. We saw on the streets of Hackney members of my Turkish community, wanting to defend their restaurants. However, we must be careful about vigilantism. It is one thing to defend one’s business, but it is for the police to be on the street defending communities. We have seen what happened in Birmingham. I worry about vigilantism tipping over into ethnic conflict in some of our big cities.Some Members of the House are talking as if disaffected, violent, criminal urban youth, with no stake in society, are overnight phenomena. I put it to the House that in London, to my knowledge, we are looking at the third generation of black boys who have been failed by the education system. I do not say this today because I have read about it in the paper. Ever since I have been a Member of Parliament this is an issue I have worked on. For 15 years I have had conferences about London schools and the black child, trying to bring the community together, trying to bring mothers together, trying to encourage them not to blame the system, or the schools, or politicians, but to take responsibility for their own children’s education. I have held workshops in Hackney for the black community, for the Turkish community, and I have had six years of running an award scheme for London’s top achieving black children. And I tell the House this: it has been impossible to get publicity for much of this activity, just as many ordinary people in our communities who are working hard with young people and people on estates cannot get publicity. But when people riot, the media is all over our communities, and the next weekend they will be gone, leaving us with these issues.
Let me say, in the very short time available, that one of the things that I have learned from years of work, in particular around urban youth and the black family, is that most families want to do the best by their children. Members are getting up and talking about bad parents. Some of these mothers want to do the best, but they struggle. I gave an award a few years ago to a young man who came here from war-torn Somalia at the age of eight and he got a first from London university. He lived on a grim estate in Brent. His brother was in a gang. It is not just about toxic areas, toxic estates, toxic families; these are individuals. Let us hope that what is happening to boys and families in urban communities is not just this week’s issue, but is something to which the House will return and give the attention it deserves.”
Michael Gove also commented on what Ms Abbott had said Col 1203: The hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) made the vital point that local authority officials, officers and workers have done an exemplary job, not least in her own constituency, where the mayor of Hackney, Jules Pipe, has shown real civic leadership. The way in which people who take pride in their community worked hard the next day to clean up the mess that had been created by an amoral minority was, to my mind, the very exemplar of public service. Also, let us not forget the work of the fire and ambulance services, who, alongside the police, risked life and limb to restore order and to ensure that people were safe.
Keith Vaz chairman of the Hime Affairs Committee also commented Col 1187: My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), who came into this House with me 24 years ago, has been going on about the issues of black youth for 24 years-plus.
Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch)Col1189 1190): There have been devastating events in my constituency, where we saw criminals breeding fear in residents and leaving destruction in their wake. I, too, pay tribute to the authorities in my area and to the council, whose clean-up with the help of local residents on Tuesday morning was so effective that by the time I arrived back in the constituency from my holiday—I came as soon as I could—the area was unrecognisable from the night before.
Police commander Steve Bending and fire commander Graham Howgate and their officers have also done a good job in restoring order to our streets. Their police officers are sleeping in the corridors at Hackney police station, ready for any further trouble. They are working closely with council officers in the CCTV room controlled by the council. Although there was still damage in Hackney, the use of CCTV has been effective in reducing it. To anyone who suggests that we reduce the use of CCTV, I would say that not a single constituent has ever asked for that. They always want more, not less, and we have seen the effects of that today. I would ask the Government to remember that.
In Clarence road in my constituency, where the worst of the troublemakers were kettled in, the police faced a real challenge. Around the police line there was looting, with cars in flames. There were not enough police to stop the looting at that time, so there are questions that the Home Secretary and the Metropolitan police need to ask at the central level about police deployment—about their ability to deploy at the right speed to get to the right place at the right time—and, of course, about police numbers. I echo the comments of the hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley). Now is the time to pause—to stop and think about cuts to police numbers. We do not need fewer; we need what we have now. We know that Ministers will trot out the mandarin maths that they are being fed. We need to listen to what people are saying out there on the ground and learn the lessons from what we have seen. Cuts of 20% are too deep and will have a devastating impact on our neighbourhood policing teams.
I welcome the support for businesses that the Prime Minister has announced. One business man, Shiva Kandiah in Clarence road, spent 11 years working seven days a week, with just one day off every year on Christmas day, building up a business that is now devastated. When will the full details of the Riot (Damages) Act 1886 scheme be announced, and can we be told now, at the end of this debate, whether it will help the uninsured and the under-insured?
I have very little time to look at the causes, but it is clear that gangs were heavily involved in such activity up and down the country, and certainly in Hackney. There are three reasons to tackle the gangs. I will not repeat what hon. Friends and colleagues have said about crime being punished. We know that those criminals need to be dealt with, and residents want them dealt with severely, but young people in Hackney make up around a third of all residents in the borough, and they are afraid. They are afraid to walk around their own streets at night, and their parents worry too. Those young people worry about going to activities and youth clubs outside their postcode areas. They should enjoy the same freedoms as most of us did when we were young, and their parents should not have to worry.
The key thing is that we are seeing a potentially lost generation, as children of primary school age are being hooked into gangs early, with some already directly involved and others with family members involved. Schools and youth support can do only so much. We need to break the cycle. I therefore welcome the Government’s talk of a report on gang culture, but it must be one that listens to young people. We have hardly heard a voice from young people in this place today, which I would have liked to have had time to reflect in the debate. We must talk to those who are good citizens, as well as those who are disaffected. Top-down will not deliver. We need local people and organisations working together to stop the gang culture once and for all and rescue the lost generation of very young children from getting hooked into wider criminal activity.
I now turn to the London Borough of Sothwark which is represented by three front bench Members of Parliament, Ms Harriet Harman the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, and Tessa Jowell, the Olympics Minister who attended a meeting on mental health at a Labour Party Conference where I was on a platform with Barbara Castle, David, now Lord Owen and David Ennals both sometime Ministers for Health and Social Services. The other Member for the Borough is Liberal Democrat Simon Hughes. It is an area of contrasts from Bermondsey and Elephant and Castle to Canada Water, the Surrey Quays and Rotherhithe, extending to Dulwich, Peckham and Syndenham and which I have visited regularly because of the south bank cultural projects such as Tate Modern and the Gobe Theatre, making river trips, the Undeground and docklands light railway, and from contacts when first at work and then from college and professionally such as meetings in the Walworth Road
The criminal activity commenced In Denmark Hill Camberwell on the Sunday when a gangland fight broke out at King's College Hospital at about 8.30pm, where two victims of a minor stabbing had been admitted earlier. Up to 20 shops on the Walworth Road Elephant and Castle broken into at about 9.30 pm on the Monday and looted for up to an hour before police arrived. A Tesco Express shop on East Dulwich Road Dulwich and shops in Lordship Lane were looted that same night to gether withNumerous shops on Rye Lane and Peckham High Street Peckham were looted by a crowd of three to four hundred rioters. A bus was set on fire on Southampton Way and Regen's, a lingerie shop on Rye Lane, was destroyed by fire. : Shops in the Surrey Quays shopping centre and a local Decathlon shop were looted by youths.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) 1157/1158 : The events in south London follow what the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) has so clearly described. In Walworth and Peckham, on the Old Kent road, in Rotherhithe and in many of our other communities, we saw on Tuesday night scenes that none of us can ever have expected to see. There was some absolutely despicable behaviour—people being pulled off their motorbikes and scooters, and women driving alone whose car windows were smashed and whose car, with them inside, was raided for its contents. In the evening, we saw parents with their children—women with their youngsters—going in with the younger people to take things out of shops on the Walworth road. People were crying on the street because they had just been promised a job in a shop that was being broken up and might not be able to carry on in business.
Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen): Unlike so many other subjects that the House debates, the aberration of these events link north and south. In my constituency, in Bacup, there was a riot by disaffected young people. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that it is time for the police to take off the kid gloves, to use the full force of the law and, where possible, to prosecute and imprison those who have engaged in such disgraceful behaviour in both the north and south of this country?
Simon Hughes: That is a clear view shared across through House. We have a common message that the law must be applied fully and without reservation, but I qualify that in one respect: it is even more important that those who are the role models—the adults, the parents and the serial criminals—are caught and dealt with without compromise. The 10-year-old, the nine-year-old, the eight-year-old, the follower, the person who got on their BlackBerry the message saying, “Come down here, it’s kicking off down here”—yes, of course, if they give in, they are to blame, as are their parents for not knowing where their children are going at 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 o’clock at night. But the older youngsters, and the ones who are over 16, 17, 18 or 21, particularly need to be seen in our courts and dealt with.
Public opinion is clear that these disturbances were not caused by this Government or the previous Government, or by the capitalist system. Public opinion is clear that they were simply criminal activity. The borough commander in Southwark made it clear that when people who have been nicked and are now being questioned in Southwark were asked why they had committed the offences, they did not put up some political argument for their action. They were clear that it was for the trainers, the televisions, the kit in the windows. They were clear that this was criminality.
It is also clear that over the past few days there were very few house burglaries in Southwark. The people who were normally doing the burglaries were out on the street kicking in the windows. I am grateful that the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister have accepted that the serious serial criminals, often the gang members, had a truce—between the gangs—over the past few days. That was recorded and it can be seen. They decided not to fight each other, but to go in and take on the community. Some people joined them who should know better—some professionals, some people from outside; the teaching assistant, the graduate—but the serious contributors to trouble in our communities, who are no good at all, are the people on whom we need to focus. Every one of the 32 borough commanders in London will say that there are about 30, 40 or 50 people who lead the local gangs and whose pictures are in the back of the police stations, and we need to concentrate on them.
When MPs break the law and fiddle their expenses, or when police officers receive money from journalists, we have to understand that there are other questions out there and that greed applies across the board, but those were not the presenting issues last week. I want to set out where we need to go now. Above all, we need to support the businesses. Our high streets need to be back to work. We need to shop in our high streets, support the small traders and make sure they have the necessary national support.
People want to give, and there ought to be systems whereby they can contribute to the statutory funds. If we have Disasters Emergency Committee appeals for east Africa, we can have an appeal, if people want to give, for north London, south London, Liverpool, Birmingham or Manchester too. Additional help may be needed for local councils and the local police holding the additional people in custody. There must be a willingness to report the culprits and, as we heard earlier, the media must hand over the information that they have. It is no good standing there and recording it, and not offering the information that would allow people to be dealt with.
We need to make sure that we tackle the causes of continuing violence. As was rightly pointed out in an intervention, two thirds of those who offend come from families where there has been a history of offending. It is generational and we need to recognise those dysfunctional families where the activity is repeated. The right hon. Member for Tottenham has often made the case that we need to recognise families where youngsters are taken out of school and out of the family early, because they become the ones most at risk. We need to support the parents, because some of them find it very difficult indeed. We need to make sure that our housing strategies and our youth services are supported, and that the mobile phone industry helps. We can recover soon, but we have to stand together and support our communities in doing so.
Mr Hughes also asked a question of the Home Secretary Col 1136: I am grateful. Does the Home Secretary accept that the evidence from the police and the community in urban communities such as mine is that there are 40 or 50 serial serious criminals who are regularly the causes of most of the trouble and most of the crime, and who were involved in the past week’s activities? Can she give an assurance that with chief police officers and local police commanders they are a central target for activity, so that they cannot sweep in the youngsters referred to in the previous question and others, who become the followers, but are following only because there is someone seriously criminal who leads?
Mrs May: I can assure my right hon. Friend that the police are very clear that they want to identify and arrest all those who have been involved in the activity that has taken place over the past few days, and they are conscious that that means not just those who find themselves caught up in it, but those who are the core criminals, who are well known to them. As a number of chief constables have been saying to me, they know a number of the gang members who have been involved because they have had interaction with them before.”
I know the area of Islington from two parts of my life in that close to Kings Cross station there is Peace News and Houseman’s Bookshop where I worked briefly in 1959 and the visited regularly until the autumn of 1961. Since the mid 1970’s I have used the station regularly and more recently have stayed in Travel Lodges in the area. There were no reports of major disorder but the windscreen of a police vehicle was smashed out as groups of youths caused a disturbance in Islington during the night of 7 August followed by sporadic night time riots in Islington on the Monday[
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) Col 1181 : When my hon. Friend describes the response of the police in Hackney, does she share my concern that there was a poor and slow police response to what happened in the Tottenham Hale shopping centre? Does she agree that any inquiry into the policing activities must examine why there was so little police availability for that incident?
There was also criminality in Leyton with looting at Currys in Leyton Mills retail park and bicycle shop Bike Shack.
John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead): It actually took four nights, not two nights, to put 16,000 police officers on the streets of London. That put businesses and people in danger, including my constituents. So far I have not heard a convincing explanation as to why that took so long. Can the Prime Minister give one?
The Prime Minister: In the end, the deployment and the numbers are an issue for the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, and that is a question that he will have to answer. It was a different situation Sunday night to Monday night to Tuesday night. We must look at that in finding the answer. The point that I was making is that it is possible to surge. The police demonstrated that that was possible, but we needed to surge more quickly.”
It is understood that there was a significant Police presence in the West End following the evening's violence spreading to Oxford Circus, central London, as about 50 youths gathered, and damaged some local property.There was also a skirmish with the police in the Edward Wood Estate in Shepherd's Bush, while a shop had been broken into in King's Road. On the Monday Looters broke into an antiques shop further along in King's Road Chelsea
Yesterday I made reference to the intgervention question of Sir Malcolm Rifkind from adjacent Kensington Col 1062 and to the response of the Prime Minister Greg Hands spoke for Chelsea and Fulham 1099/1100: My constituents have also been victims of some of the disorder in recent days and strongly welcome the much tougher policing that has been launched since Monday night. The Prime Minister mentioned Bill Bratton, who has done such fantastic work in reducing crime in Boston, New York and Los Angeles. Can he mention some of the things that we might be able to learn from the excellent beat and street policing that has been used in many cities in the United States for the past 17 years?
The Prime Minister: This work that is done in the United States is also done in the United Kingdom. One thing we can do is just work harder to map and understand how many gangs there are, what their membership is and what they are doing so that we have better intelligence, but I am sure that there will be many things I can discuss with Bill Bratton when he comes to meet me shortly.”
On the Monday riotous criminality appears to have been restricted to London but there was also a problem at Waltham Cross, Hertfordshire where part of does comeing within Greater London and where looters and rioters attacked two police cars and two jewellers in Waltham Cross High Street at around 21:50. A specialist public order unit was sent to the area, along with sections of the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Police Dog Unit.
This section of my review demonstrates that from one area on Saturday night the criminality spread on the Sunday and that the police had some intelligence but for reasons which must be explored and explained were unable to take action which stopped the looting or immediately take those involved off the streets. The signal appeared to be given that it was possible to riot, attack the police and anyone who tried to intervened and to undertake specific and opportunistic raids on stores ranging from the impulsive taking of a pair of trainers, music disc to car and vanloads of commodities without risk of being stopped or subsequently apprehended. “The police can’t do nothing was a frequent taunt.”
What was to happen next was on a scale which has damaged the reputation of England internationally, led to deaths and injuries, fear and devastation with many areas becoming war zones. It was a warning which everyone ignores at their peril.
